Hi,
I've purchased one ampleon 250w module and mounted in a siemens pa case.
See the picture.
Is anyone using this pallet?
Bye!
Hi,
I've purchased one ampleon 250w module and mounted in a siemens pa case.
See the picture.
Is anyone using this pallet?
Bye!
Hi,
I've preferred to by the complete module, I had a lot of problem with temperature and bias but now look working well. Let me know how your pcb works when you finished it.
Bye!
See better siemens case with ampleon pallet inside.
Hi,
just to show complete ampleon 250w implementation in a siemens case.
Currently I-m limiting the voltage to 28V and current to 9amper. Ghetting
as out power around 120w with around 30db datv shoulder.
See attached pictures.
Bye!
Hi,
I've preferred to by the complete module, I had a lot of problem with temperature and bias but now look working well. Let me know how your pcb works when you finished it.
Bye!
Hi Marco,
Do you have a schematic diagram for the BIAS controlling?
I have a BPC2425M7X60 Ampleon pallet. That is a bit more complicated because of more stages but I think your solution is good for me too.
Thanks,
Tamas
Very Nice Marco. Congratulation.
Please share your experience will be useful for all the community.
73
Hi,
the Ampleon 250w pallet has been a good challenge I had to fight a lot with bias circuit before understanding
the real problem root cause.
I had really to read carefully the data sheet and application note.
First of all we have to think what is the pallet designed for. Not at all for DVB-S2 but for CW or CSW pulsed.
We do not have to forget it is for ISM energy professional usage, continuous operations.
If you have look on the Ampleon application
note, the water cooling system is recommended, you know when an American designer is writing recommended it means
we mast follow the recommendation. Not only the pallet requires water cooling but cold water cooling, yes 5 degree
centigrade water cooling.
The pallet data sheet says there is an internal bias compensation but I've not been able to find any circuit details.
I'm in a good relationships with Ampleon people, I've opened several support tickets getting fast and detailed answers,
but no way to get the bias details. I've then done pcb pallet reverse engineering finding the internal bias compensation
it is just one 1500ohm ntc feeding the bias input current to ground. I had a look on the BPC2425M7X60 and I think
it has also same ntc as 250w pallet, so using this 60w pallet you will run same problem I had.
Here attached the ntc resistance/temperature table I've got from ampleon. Reading that table you see the ntc has
around 1500ohm at 25 degree centigrade and the resistance drops dramatically to 600ohm at only 40 degree centigrade.
I've chosen a really simple external bias circuit done by a regulator from 28v to 12, than a couple of resistors and a
potentiometer generating a bias voltage from zero to 8V. The 250w pallet has 1,6v threshold.
I've than applied the 28V and adjusted the bias to 500ma as suggested from ampleon tiket regarding DVB-S2 usage.
I've than applied rf input and seen the output power was initially getting well and after a couple of second dropping
dramatically.
I've than measured the operating bias directly to the LDMOS gate discovering it was drooping from initial 1.7V to 0.5 volt.
I've than thought the bias current was not enough.
Even I know the LDMOS bias current is around one microampere, I've decided to add on transitory to my bias circuit to
increase the current. I've than adjusted the bias current to 500ma and applied the rf in. Nothing changed same behavior
as before good initial power and than dropped again.
Luckily the pallet has another ntc, same as the bias compensation one called temperature sensor, measuring it resistance
I've discovered just applying rf in it drops from 1500ohm to 600ohm in a couple of second.
I do not want to bore you with all the tests I've done, but at the and I came to the conclusion I had two options, the first
add cold water cooling to the pallet, the second take out internal pallet bias compensations.
Due to the fact I do not have continuous operations needs for amateur DVB-S2 operation, I've taken out the ntc from
the pallet and added an ohmmeter to the ntc temperature sense. Looking to the ampleon ntc table I check the ohmmeter
not drooping less to 200 ohm corresponding to 60 degree centigrade. That is the maximum pallet temperature suggested
by ampleon.
Since than I'm using the pallet for DVB-S2 operation with 140w power and I've never seen the internal sense dropping
less than 550ohm.
The best would bee to add an alarm circuit to switch off the pa when the internal sense drop to 200 ohm.
I'm now working in an ampleon 500w LDMOS pa I think I'll do the alarm for it.
I hope I've my experience will help someone else working with ampleon pallet.
Bye, ... have fun with bias and ntc.
DE IZ4RYB
Hereunder movies
Bye!
...I've taken out the ntc from
the pallet and added an ohmmeter to the ntc temperature sense. Looking to the ampleon ntc table I check the ohmmeter
not drooping less to 200 ohm corresponding to 60 degree centigrade. ...
thank you Marco for the detailed description.
Do you think it is possible to adjust the NTC with parallel or series resistors, or to use another NTC?
73 de Kurt, DJ0ABR
Hi,
this kind of thermal bias NTC compensation is suitable only for CW operation with a bias current around 20ma, using water cooling.
When the LDMOS is used around its maximum power the NTC reduce the bias current and the output power decreases leaving the
LDMOS temperature under 60 degrees. We are using the LDMOS at half of the maximum power with around 800ma bias current.
If we leave any kind of NTC thermal compensation we are not getting any power decrease with bias we will only reduce the bias
current and the linearity creating DVBS distortions.
The best DVBS thermal compensation suitable for DVBS operation, should be a microprocessor measuring with internal ADC the NTC
resistance and regulating the input power with a digital step attenuator.
We are not a SAT broadcasting TV so we do not need to have continuous operation, so I've just placed one ohmmeter connected to
the internal pallet NTC sensor and I just check the resistance stays around 400 ohm during Tx.
Bye!
thanks Marco,
what are you doing if it falls below 400 ohms, getting too hot. Do you just stop your transmission or do you reduce bias current?
Dear Marco,
My name is Roque (PU2RQV) i am in Brazil.
I am trying to configure a Maxim Bias board (MAXREFDES39#) to setup a correct bias to the Ampleon 250w moduleBPC2425M9X2S250-1 a 2 stage amplifier.
I would like to know what are the exactly bias current that you used in your project IDq1 and IDq2 ?
Did you use both are 500 ma ? Or the drive stage are smaller than the final stage ?
I hope to be able to do it with the MAXREFDES39# to regulate the correct current (and voltage also) and adjust for temperature reducing the bias current.
Please let-me know your opinion.
Regards,
Roque - PU2RQV
Hello,
meanwhile I also built a DATV-PA based on such a 250W pallet from Ampleon. I am getting 230W output and the bias point is quite stable over temperature.
Here is a description (sorry it is still in German but you will probably understand based on the many pictures):
http://www.dd1us.de/Downloads/…0BPC2425M9X250%20v1.2.pdf
If there is enough interest I might translate it to English.
Kind regards
Matthias
Here is a description (sorry it is still in German but you will probably understand based on the many pictures):
Hallo Matthias
I added your project to the Lexikon:
If you have an English doc you can tell it to me.