Just replaced the original 25MHz quarts by this one:
73 de Ed PY2RN
How long time change frequency is take to final stabilization ? How is weather affect to freq stability please?
Can you send a picture of your connection to X1/X2 ports with TCXO? Whats going with xtal, C-load and other?
Yes,not difficult , is depend on internal diam of WG of LNB.
on the picture is born each other
you right, in the next time , please read up to the end,may be will see references. I set source. Thank you domnule
The spurs can be from bad shield or grounding.
I really don't remember how long i have this material, but it's can help to users in theme to reduce some basics mistakes. It's not will take a long time to read this.
Low noise block downconverters (LNBs) are essential for reliable satellite communication – but not all LNBs are created equal. Some produce too much phase noise or degrade signal strength. Others stunt data rates or fail in extreme temperatures. How do you know if you’re getting a high quality, high performing LNB for your satellite terminal? Here are 10 things to look for:
1. Phase Noise
LNB phase noise (or phase jitter) is caused by the phase fluctuations of an oscillator – and can seriously impact the performance of your terminal. A low phase noise LNB is critical for minimizing bit error rate (BER), particularly with higher order modulation schemes that squeeze as much data out of the link as possible, such as 32 APSK used in DVB-S2 or up to 128 QAM for some Earth Observation systems.
Phase noise is measured at specific intervals from the carrier frequency – usually starting at 10 Hz and moving up to 1 MHz. Good phase noise LNBs have 10 kHz values of -85 dB-Hz. In other words, the phase noise value is 85 dB below the carrier value when measured 10 kHz away from the carrier frequency.
2. Noise Figure
Noise figure is a measure of the additional noise an LNB adds to a system link. The more noise an LNB adds, the worse the signal strength becomes. Signal quality is typically measured as a carrier-to-noise ratio (CNR, C/No or C/N ratio) – and modems require a minimum C/N ratio to acquire a signal.
There is no such thing as a noise figure of zero. All LNBs add noise due to the electronics in the unit – and the higher the frequency, the higher the noise will be. What is a good LNB noise figure? Look for 1.5 dB for Ka-band frequencies, 0.8 dB for Ku and X-band, and 0.4 dB for C-band.
Signal gain – the extent to which an amplifier boosts the strength of the signal from the antenna – is not usually an issue as most LNBs come with a fixed gain value of about 60 dB. However, an LNB’s gain is important to consider in two key circumstances: when dealing with long interfacility links (IFL) or large, high-gain antennas. With regards to IFL, the longer the cable that connects your outdoor satellite receiver to indoor routers or transmitters, the greater the signal loss. In these cases, an LNB that delivers higher gain is necessary.
With large antennas (e.g. at teleports) too much gain can be an issue. These antennas introduce large signal power to the first stage of an LNB, which can saturate the LNB and cause signal compression. When the signal is compressed, the output power no longer increases with the input power. This creates a non-linear response – which in turn produces signal distortion and harmonics. An LNB that can be customized for gain is critical in these circumstances.
4. Gain Compression Figures
To ensure maximum LNB linearity, it’s important to know the point at which gain compression will begin to occur. Compression is measured in two ways: P1 (1 dB compression point) and IP3 (third-order intercept point).
P1 is the point where the LNB drops 1 dB off its expected output level as the input increases. This compression point measures the beginning of the non-linear region of the LNB. The higher the P1 figure, the better. In Ka, Ku and C-band LNBs, P1 should be at least +10 dBm. In X-band, the figure rises to +15 dBm.
When an LNB becomes non-linear, it will begin to produce harmonics – and harmonics create signal distortion. IP3 is the theoretical power level at which the third-order harmonics equal that of the main carrier. The IP3 value essentially indicates the power level at which third order harmonics become a real issue. When choosing an LNB, look for IP3 levels that are +20 dBm or higher.
5. Temperature Range
Most LNBs are mounted directly on the antenna feed and are therefore subject to wide temperature variations. Survivable and operational temperature variations are often spec’d. From a service perspective, operational temperatures between -40C and +60C should be a minimum. For very hot climates, look for LNBs that can operate at temperatures as high as +90C.
6. Desense Level
Both the transmit and receive signals pass through an orthocoupler on their way to or from the antenna. Orthocouplers are not perfect devices and transmit signals will leak into the receive chain. The desense level is the effect of these transmit signals on an LNB’s noise figure. (More specifically, it is the RF power in the receive chain that will diminish the noise figure by 0.1 dB.) Desense becomes a bigger issue when transmit and receive frequency bands are relatively close together, such as X-band.
When choosing an LNB, think of the desense level as a measure of the effectiveness of the transmit reject filter in the LNB. The better the filter, the less the transmit signal can affect the receive noise figure. Desense levels in the order of -50 dBm indicate very good filters.
The Voltage Standing Wave Ratio (VSWR) measures the impedance mismatch between the antenna feed and the LNB flange. It’s very difficult to get a perfect match as feeds and LNBs are manufactured separately. The mismatch causes some of the receive power from the antenna to reflect back to itself. The smaller the VSWR, the better the match – and the more power is delivered to the LNB.
How do you limit the VSWR? With an isolator. These can be external devices, but good LNBs have internal isolators. To get the most out of your LNB, be on the lookout for this built-in feature.
8. Flat Frequency Response
It’s not good enough to simply have an average gain of 60 dB across the band you’re operating in. You also want the gain to be flat across that frequency band. (“Flat” meaning only minor variations for low to high frequencies.) LNBs with high skews (not flat) will introduce non-linearities into the receive signal and impede data throughput. Gain flatness should be +/- 1.5 dB across the entire band.
Ripple is another specification closely related to band flatness. Ripple is the peak-to-peak variation of the signal over a narrow portion of the band, say 10 MHz. Good ripple specs are in the order of +/- 0.1 dB over any 10 MHz.
9. External Reference vs. Phase-Locked Loop (PLL)
The local oscillator (LO) inside the LNB is responsible for accurately converting the RF signal to L-band. The LO is either locked to an internal 10 MHz reference using a Phase Locked Loop (PLL) – or it is locked to an external 10 MHz reference.
An LO with an internal reference usually has poorer phase noise characteristics than an LO with an external reference. In addition, when crystal oscillators are mounted inside an LNB, they are subjected to large temperature variations that can cause the crystal to drift over time. This is good enough for some applications (such as receive-only video with a large link margin), but high data rates need much better LO performance.
LOs that are locked to an external 10 MHz reference signal deliver this performance and offer superior phase noise and stability. The quality of the external reference matters as well. Like LOs, external references are measured by their phase noise and stability characteristics. Phase noise of -85 dBc/Hz at 10 kHz is very good.
10. Gain Adjustment
LNBs usually come with a fixed gain figure – which works well when system losses are accounted for and the signal that enters the modem is within its range. But often, paper designs differ from what occurs in a field installation. For this reason, LNBs that have a variable gain adjustment are a good choice. Gain adjustments can be set by the manufacturer, and in some cases a Monitor & Control port on the LNB will give the user the ability to make their own adjustments. For flexibility in the field, look for LNB gain adjustments of 20-30 dB.
There is a lot to consider when selecting a low noise block downconverter for your SATCOM terminal – even beyond what is listed here. For example, you may need to factor in other environmental conditions such as high humidity, or man-made conditions such as vibration. All LNB manufacturers provide spec sheets so you can see at a glance what you’re getting. However, these specs are usually averages, so if you need to ensure high performance, find a vendor that will individually test their LNBs and provide the actual figures for each unit. (We do this here at Orbital).
Here’s a cheat sheet for the top 10 things to look for in an LNB:
- Phase noise with 10 KHz values of -85 dBc/Hz
- Noise figures of 1.5 dB for Ka-band, 0.8 dB for Ku and X-band, and 0.4 dB for C-band
- High gain or customized gain (if needed)
- P1 of at least +10 dBm for Ka, Ku and C-band, and +15 dBm for X-band – and IP3 of at least +20 dBm
- Minimum -40C to +60C temperature range
- Desence level of approximately -50 dBm
- Internal isolator
- Gain flatness of +/- 1.5 dB across the entire band, and ripple of =/- 0.1 dB over any 10 MHz
- External reference LO (for most applications)
- Variable gain adjustment of 20-30 dB
2 years ago i spend my time for Si-series to get stable signal. is true, Don't waste your time, take OCXO 13~15MHz, inject reference into ADF4351 or AD9851 to set clock 25MHz.
Today i repeat setup, it's working! All stones is RF level of external clock. In this time i'm using N2PK stand alone with touch screen and internal program as source of 25 MHz.
In fact that i use QINTAR standart splitters of 75 Ohms, must to do some adapt 50=>75. Those models is old from 1991, different ranges, but all pass DC to one or all ports. Also coax cables is 75 OHms, only BNC is 50.
My source is 54 MHz~13,6 GHz loaded via horn 10~11 GHz have some moving piston inside to adjust exact range. Tuned and transmitted on 10,489 MHz.
See attached pictures. Also, LNB with POTY (no ext clk).
i'm try to operate, long story for this moment in what's way i'm making my test,but not working. may be it's phasing of trafos in port, may be clock 25 MHz has low RF level.
tomorrow i will try to set few photos of setup. i have few LNB's for compare, ugraded one not so running, but hope not die yet
i will see it later. and your device is working?
in the pictures mounted RF transformer from TOKO 617PT-1026 (1:1). Datasheet is attached.
Pads of XTAL go out with XTAL. now connected with wires. need 2 solders to remove XTAL.
OCXO filtered by 6 pole BPF. Amplifier stage ERA-3, filtered out by LPF 100MHz and addapted RF out to +13dBm. PIN diode multiplier by 5. Output is filtered by 6 pole 500 MHz BPF. Pictures of fwo results on span 0,5 GHz & 1 GHz. 500 MHz carrier is high, more than 35 dB over all.
First experiments "on the air". first picture only test if it's working - yes, is it.
Now need to amplify last stage up to +27dBm and inset this level to COMB generator with 10GHz filtering.
I see. by the way, AL measured not in all ferrite beads. they have very high Mu parameter, about 2,000~5,000. Ready one transformer it's very cheap today. usually in ferrite beads measured impedance in some frequency range. this is very important parameter. not every company reproduce same tables. please see on the picture attachment in sample.
from past expirience - try to set 200~400 OHms resistor in parallel with secondary, pins of oscillator in IC. Coupling may sets better with 1:1 transformer. Othercase possible to use in ready one from Token balun transformer TCB4F
thanks. yes, system make automatic translation, need stop it. sorry,
I'm open this theme, because there is few old ways to make not war with stability factor of LNB,
There is no mistake in theme name, not so simple,but it's really working.
Why build? Today I am conducting some tests with replacing an external LNB source or internally replacing XTAL and giving an external signal. In any case, I use 6 types or different LNB modes, such as STRONG R739, Octagon OSLO 1609 and others. In the end, another big question is why the same RDA3566 processor used in different (all) models does not use load capacitors and does not work with an external source? it is after each experiment - XTAL is still inside or deleted, etc.
I have idea how to build LNB, promissed phase noise in 10 GHz at offset 1kHz = -128 dBc/Hz. Is not cheaper device, ut is not consist of any programming code for microcontroller, no DDS/PLL e.t.c. "Clear" RF only.
The huge advantage of this diode / generator is that, despite the frequency multiplication, the losses in the phase noise index are scanty, there are practically none.
I have not price at this moment. must calculate after assy in the box.
Hello people. I'm new here,try to pick few ideas fot full transverter - rx/tx, who not depend by tranciever frequency. The last one will choosed by amateur. In any case i have 3 ways to get full transverter for satt transmiting and receiving.